Wednesday morning 11 October 2023

Israel

• The standard way of operating with Iran is to arm and support independent groups and allow them to pursue their own projects.  Along with this line of reasoning, this argument…Iran wasn’t directly involved with the Hamas attack because they didn’t have to be. 
• What is Hamas? The Atlantic https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2023/10/what-is-hamas/675594/
• Gaza is not an open region where people are free to leave.

Wednesday afternoon 11 October 2023

MSNBC

• Ayman M., reporter
• This is the fifth Israeli operation within fifteen years.
• Most of these people are under 15.
• Impoverished.  No bunkers.  They are being portrayed as Hamas “accomplices.”
• Peter Beinart, Journalism Professor
• There have been protests against Hamas rule.
• The “open air prison” did not keep Israeli safe. 
• Bombing after bombing after bombing, it doesn’t work.
• Trama inflicts more hatred.  They are saying that if they can’t live safe lives, Israelis cannot either.
• There may be a short term rallying around Netanyahu, but in the long term, there will be a commission to examine the government.
• Netanyahu’s reputation was that he was good on security.  That will be damaged.  There is a potential end to his Party.  We don’t know what will replace it.
• Joy Reid
• The obvious answer seems to be the two state solution.  Why now with the potential Suadi agreement?
• Ayman
• What Oslo tried to set up was flawed.
• The Palestinians were not seeking land.  They were seeking freedom and self determination. 
• Israeli became more extreme, pushing for more settlements.  The PA became more corrupt and more weak.  The West Bank is no longer viable as a Palestinian state. 
• As Netanyahu came into power, he wanted to make peace with Arab regimes who did not usually reflect their own people and ignore the Palestinians. 
• The West let Israel get away with this, hide from the problem – self-determination for the Palestinians.
• Reid:  Did the Netanyahu government not realize they were provoking Hamas?
• Marc Polymeropoulos, former CIA
• After 1973, there was a similar examination. 
• The Intelligence services failed.  “political disfunction” Netanuahu was in great conflict with the heads of his security services.
• Haaretz editorial.

Chris Hayes

• Netanyahu promised harsh response.
• (Note: The stories, the individual stories, breed support for an unstrained response.  There are individual stories in Ukraine and in Palestine).
• Velshi, interviewed an Israeli “I want Gaza flattened.”

If you are really interested in developing an understanding of the complexities of the events in Israel and Gaza, you should listen to this and read an editorial from an Israeli newspaper.

The Majority Report — 10/9 Horror In Israel/Palestine; ‘Legal’ Theft Of Indigenous Land w/ Orly Noy, Peter d’Errico (majorityreportradio.com)

Note: While it is tempting to listen to the first part and not the second, prerecorded interview about law, don’t do it. The second interview is relevant to the question of the establishment of the Jewish state.